The Coordinating Board for Monitoring Mystical Beliefs in Society (Bakor Pakem) has issued a recommendation for the government to ban the Islamic sect Jamaah Ahmadiyah. The Jakarta Post's Riyadi Suparno and Alfian Idris discussed the issue with prominent lawyer and Presidential Advisory Council member Adnan Buyung Nasution, who is counseling President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono not to allow a joint ministerial decree outlawing the "deviant" sect.
Question: What is the Presidential Advisory Council's stance on the recommendation to ban Ahmadiyah. Answer: The council had a meeting to discuss this matter last Friday. The session was marked with very intense debate, with so many pros and cons. I cannot go into detail because this is an internal thing. Until now, the council has yet to decide on any institutional recommendation. What is available is counsel from individual members, like what I have submitted to the President. Other members are allowed to do the same.
What is your advice to the President?
Well, I cannot disclose it to the public without the President's permission. I cannot even share this with the Vice President. But this advice is not from Adnan on a personal level, but as a member of the council.
What is your stance on the controversial Ahmadiyah sect?
My opinion from the beginning has been that the state must protect the right to life of all its citizens, regardless of their religion, race and cultural background. Any religious group has the right to embrace any religion and to express its beliefs. This freedom is guaranteed by the Constitution and laws. It's a matter of principle for me, very principle and fundamental. I cannot tolerate seeing members of a so-called deviant group forced to repent in front of the police. What kind of country do we have?
Do you think the President will allow for the issuance of a joint ministerial decree to ban Ahmadiyah?
I know the government is under pressure because the Indonesian Ulema Council has publicly declared Ahmadiyah a heretical sect. However, he needs to be firm in this matter. He has to reject Bakor Pakem's recommendation and not issue such a decree to outlaw Ahmadiyah. The government has to facilitate dialogue among all parties to find the best solution for Ahmadiyah. We have to agree to disagree. We cannot repress others just because they are different. I don't want to see this anymore. We had it enough in the past, when Indonesian Communist Party (PKI) members were massacred.
But the grassroots seem to support Bakor Pakem's recommendation against Ahmadiyah?
I don't think so. A police report said those involved in attacks on Ahmadiyah property came from other areas. Ahmadiyah members have been living peacefully in Indonesia since 1925. People have raised Ahmadiyah as an issue just in the last three years.
Who is behind this? I am concerned that this is the influence from Saudi Arabia through hard-line groups that come to our pesantren (Islamic boarding schools). They incite society to hate Ahmadiyah and demand the closing of this sect. I think this is in line with the way Pakistan's military regime dissolved Ahmadiyah earlier. I think law enforcers need to be tough on these groups. They can be charged with provocation and intimidation.
To what extent can the state interfere in people's religious life?
State intervention must be proportional. When it comes to belief and religious devotion, the state absolutely has no right to interfere. This is a private relationship between individuals and their god. But when it comes to social life, we have to democratically decide on the way we want to live together.
This is the essence of constitutional democracy, a democracy that is not only based on majority votes but also protected by the Constitution. Thus, it's not a matter of majority only, but there are higher values within the Constitution that guarantee the right to life for all of us. This is why we need to defend the Constitution. I call on moderate Islamic scholars loyal to the Constitution to wake up and fight these authoritarian ideologies.
When will the Presidential Advisory Council issue a institutional recommendation on Ahmadiyah?
It depends on the ongoing process because there is debate inside the council. So let us see. To be honest, I am also wondering whether the council has the guts in this case. Or, it's also possible that the council will simply ignore this case.
In the beginning, some are worried that the council would be too powerful or higher than the Cabinet and even the President. In fact, it's not like what people think. It's not easy even for the council to meet the President. But some of our recommendations have influenced the President's decisions, such as our advice on the selection method for new judges of the Constitutional Court and the fifth amendment of the Constitution.
Would you provide legal support for Ahmadiyah if the government banned the sect?
That has been the Legal Aid Institute (LBH)'s consensus. I am no longer the LBH head, so I am not involved in dealing with the case. The LBH will definitely defend Ahmadiyah. It will be backed by the Indonesian Legal Aid Foundation.
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