Rendi A. Witular, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta | Fri, 10/01/2010 8:12 AM
Firebrand cleric Abu Bakar Ba’asyir says his detention was unlikely to have the slightest impact on the Mujahideen movement vying to transform Indonesia into an Islamic state by all means. The Jakarta Post’s Rendi A. Witular interviewed Ba’asyir in his prison cell last week. Here are excerpts:
Question: Your followers have been allegedly linked to the recent bank robberies and the killing of police officers in North Sumatra. How do you respond to this?
Answer: I don’t know them. And there’s no strong evidence that they are Mujahideen. But if they are indeed fighting for the cause of Islam may Allah glorify their souls.
Your followers Ubeid and Abdul Harris have testified that you are involved in organizing and financing the Aceh military-style terrorist training camp. Your comment?
From what I’ve heard, they’ve been tortured by Detachment 88 (the National Police antiterrorism squad) to link me to the movement. It’s just exactly what (the police) did when they netted me for my alleged role in the first Bali bombing. The witnesses were also tortured at the time to drag me into supposedly masterminding the attack. Eventually, the court cleared me of all charges. So the police, based on orders from the US and Australia, are playing the same game against me.
Why do (the police) target you and not other clerics?
It’s in the interests of the US and Australia to have me detained. Since I arrived home from exile in Malaysia (in late 1990s), they have accused me of leading al-Qaeda in Indonesia. They are afraid that if Islam rules the nation, the US and its allies will no longer be able to control the country.
As you know, the court has never been able to punish me under the terrorism law. They could only get me for immigration violations and through the criminal code, not terrorism. Even the Supreme Court has cleared me of any terrorism activities. This has made the US furious, and is now ordering Detachment 88 to engineer a case against me.
The police have accused me of providing Rp 700 million (US$72,000) for setting up the Aceh camp, and discussing the Aceh plan with the late Dulmatin. My charges will carry a maximum of death penalty or lifetime imprisonment. But I know of their plan to have me get a lengthy term of imprisonment with a hope that when I’ve done my time I will be too old to do anything.
Aside from that, (the police) are also afraid of my sermons, which are actually aimed at correcting the Islamic teachings of monotheism. I’ve also criticized our country’s state system, which is not in line with Islamic rules, and is damned by God.
So what is actually the intention of your sermons?
Aside from correcting the teachings, I’m fighting to turn Indonesia into an Islamic state based on Islam and managed by Islamic law. Muslims should live in an Islamic country, if not they will be damned in hell. For me and my followers, struggling for an Islamic state is not negotiable, and there’ll be no turning back for us.
You believe that you and your followers will succeed?
Prophet Muhammad has foreseen the establishment of a glorified caliphate nation one day. The infidels can still live in our planned nation but if they oppose us, it will be our obligation to wage war on them.
And we believe the time will come for an Islamic state if we keep the struggle alive.
How do you plan on reaching your goal?
Well, you have to deploy all means, including jihad for war if you can no longer do it through sermons.
This is nonnegotiable because if you don’t try it then you will die as infidels. That’s why I keep fighting for it. If you have capabilities then it is your obligation to undertake any means to reach your goals.
But you are here now in prison. How would you fight for that?
Many of my followers are still out there, and remain on track for the struggle. My imprisonment will not have the slightest impact on the movement. There are a lot of Mujahideen who are continuing my struggle without having to depend on me. They still have the spirit alive, and are even more militant than me.
