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aving groomed himself to assume the capital'€™s top job, Deputy Jakarta Governor Basuki '€œAhok'€ Tjahaja Purnama is more than ready to lead the city '€” home to 10 million people '€” by replacing Governor Joko '€œJokowi'€ Widodo, the president-elect. '€œI'€™ve been doing a governor'€™s job, anyway,'€ he said.

In his last days as the deputy governor, Ahok received The Jakarta Post'€™s Evi Mariani, Dwi Atmanta and Sita W. Dewi at his office on the second floor of City Hall in Central Jakarta for an exclusive interview. In his typical outspoken manner, Ahok talked about the city'€™s policies, the urban poor and imminent challenges awaiting his administration.

Below are excerpts from the interview:

Question: You are known as an official who, unlike other officials, does not use formal language. Most public officials use formal language when addressing the people to maintain their public image. But you use slang and informal language a lot.

Answer: The heck with personal image. Why should I care about my image? You know how thinking has already consumed our energy, let alone thinking about what others think about our answer, such as '€˜would people like my answers?'€™ and so on. It'€™s exhausting. I'€™m not like that. I speak my mind and heart. If a person is offended, I take it as a lesson learned. And I will use another word the next time.

Do you ever regret what you say?

If I did, I wouldn'€™t be as strong as I am today. I might have collapsed. Having your heart hurt is the most exhausting thing of all. It can ruin your body and you end up being depressed. I once called [Pluit Reservoir] squatters communists. Did I say something wrong? They asked for the government to share the land '€” isn'€™t that part of communist ideology? I use the term '€˜bastard'€™. Well, even the holy Bible uses that term.

Apart from bureaucratic reform, what will be your priorities once you'€™re governor?

They will still be the same. Street vendors and low-cost apartments are among them. We want to use identity cards issued by the bank for all beneficiaries. If we only rely on agencies, they could just forge the cards. But you can'€™t forge an ATM card because you could be charged with a banking crime. I aim to shift all transactions to non-cash transactions so I can see the beneficiaries'€™ [lifestyles]. Once we complete the building of low-cost apartments, we aim to get rid of all the slums in the capital. No more slums in Jakarta.

Some of your remarks regarding the urban poor have been, at times, offensive, as if you don'€™t have any empathy. Also, regarding the relocation of street vendors, your approach doesn'€™t seem too different to [previous governors] Sutiyoso or Fauzi Bowo: relocating them and deploying public order officers.

You only heard one success story. Try visiting Surakarta [where Jokowi was mayor in 2005-2012] and check out how many markets are empty. The [successful] relocations there also involved money. The Small and Medium Enterprises Agency distributed Rp 5 million [US$427] to each vendor to start up a business [in a new place]. All regions have similar problems and they all involve money.

Jakarta has the APKLI [street vendors association], but the chairwoman [Hoiza Siregar] seemed to be unhappy with you.

Did she or did she not accept money, I ask you? Why did I lose my patience? I invited her to talk, but what happened? The association sold the spots [to street vendors]. They might deny it, but we know that the associations people in the field did that. That'€™s why I didn'€™t want to collaborate with them. I clandestinely counted [the number of existing vendors].

What makes me different to Sutiyoso and Fauzi Bowo? Yes, they also built street vendor centers and traditional markets '€” some were built on green areas. But look at those places now. Are the current vendors the initial ones? That'€™s why I want them to sign an agreement stating that they can only transfer ownership to their spouses, children and children-in-law. They can'€™t sublet it to other parties. Otherwise, we would only create brokers
and the like.

The bylaw stipulates that street vendors can'€™t operate on sidewalks or in parks. I think that'€™s wrong. That'€™s where they belong. Even in Singapore, street vendors sell ice cream on sidewalks. I will allow it as long as they keep it clean. The heck with associations. I'€™m the new Godfather!

Have you met directly with street vendors?

I met with street vendors from Monas [the National Monument], Tanah Abang and the East Flood Canal. I even met with them in the middle of the night. I said I would allow them to operate but would revoke their rights if they couldn'€™t maintain cleanliness. They agreed. They were happier to deal with us. I aim to allocate Rp 1 trillion from the city budget to street vendors to help with their businesses.

There'€™s nothing to worry about because we have a lot of money. Why do we have an abundant number of street vendors? It'€™s because 40 percent of Jakarta'€™s population is poor. That'€™s why I am very strict on program beneficiaries not being allowed to sublet or sell their kiosks or apartments to others.

Poor people will stay with you until the end of the day. That'€™s why an education allowance and health care are important. We aim to tighten the distribution system by applying a zoning system in the health-care program. Beneficiaries can only gain access to the closest hospitals.

Will you run again in 2017?

Yes, I will. It is only a matter of proving whether or not I can be reelected.