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ormer president Soeharto once strongly reprimanded Sarwono Kusumaatmadja for being outspoken in expressing his political stances, both in his capacity as Golkar secretary-general and former environment minister. Sarwono, who applauded the merging of the Environment Ministry with the Forestry Ministry, talked on Tuesday with The Jakarta Post'€™s Hans Nicholas Jong about the ongoing Golkar conflict and also on environmental issues.

Question: How do you see the current situation of the Golkar Party?

Answer: I do not think this situation is exclusive to the Golkar Party. Right now, almost all political parties have the same characteristics; they are all very pragmatic. They only think about who gets what. This is how our political mindset has become.

What is the cause of this?

Actually in the past, there were also people whose way of thinking was like that. But it was under control, so that kind of mindset did not spread. But now, with such an open political system and decentralization, that kind of mindset has spread everywhere.

How should the conflict within the Golkar Party be solved then?

The solution for it is, of course, to give the leadership opportunity to other candidates. If the voting mechanism is fair and transparent, then it can be done. But we do not know how it will end up.

So Aburizal has failed in leading the party?

When the Golkar Party was under tremendous pressure during the 1999 and the 2004 elections, it actually performed well. In 1999, it was the second biggest vote-getter, while in 2004, it actually won the legislative election. That was during the chairmanship of Akbar Tandjung. Now the pressure has gone, but the party'€™s performance is actually dropping.

What do you think will happen after the congress?

Every time the Golkar Party finishes holding a congress, new parties always emerge, [such as the Gerindra Party, the NasDem Party and the Hanura Party]. Why? We have to distinguish between Golkar as a party and Golkar as a family network. The ones that get abandoned are members of the network. So while people are busy fighting over the leadership of the party, the network is neglected.

Do you think this will happen again after this year'€™s meeting?

I don'€™t think so because I don'€™t think people want to make a new party as it is too much of a hassle. But the likeliest possibility is for people to migrate to other parties. This is not a shameful practice now as it was in the past. For example, there are Basuki '€œAhok'€ Tjahaja Purnama, Yuddy Chrisnandi, Ferry Mursyidan Baldan and Siti Nurbaya Bakar. [All quit the Golkar Party and moved either to the Gerindra Party, the Hanura Party or the NasDem Party respectively]. They were being neglected in the Golkar Party because people were too busy defending themselves in the party without any attempt to communicate with their network.

Is the party broken beyond repair?

No. The spirit of the party could be restored. What can fix the culture of a party is the fact that it has to compete with other parties during elections. The party that wins the competition is the one that has a good spirit, while those who are greedy will be punished.

But what if Aburizal is reelected? Will there be any hope for the party?

If the wrong man is elected, then of course people will quit the party. But if the right man is elected, then the party still has hope. So it is important to avoid misreading the potential of a candidate.

This is a different issue. As a former environment minister, from 1993 to 1998, how do you assess the environment situation in Indonesia?

There has been progress, with business practices beginning to shift and environmental education in schools gaining steam. But environmental issues are long-term and assessing whether a program is succeeding or not takes time. It is not something that can be easily measured.

What is the homework for the current ministry?

One thing that needs to be focused on is climate change. But I have to applaud President Joko '€œJokowi'€ Widodo'€™s move to merge the Forestry Ministry and the Environment Ministry. It is a very bold move and I think it is a good one because it will make forestry issues become a priority in the Environment Ministry. In the past, the focus of the Forestry Ministry was exploitation [of forest natural resources], but now it is more about conservation.

What about concerns that the merger will lead to overlapping functions within the single ministry?

There is no need to fear that. The matter for concern is the overlapping of authority. Do not let the authorities in the two ministries overlap with each other.