Marta Santos Pais - (Courtesy United Nations Information Center)

This November will mark the 25th anniversary of the 1989 Convention on the Rights of the Child. As one of the first countries that ratified the convention, Indonesia has made some progress in addressing violence against children. For example, the 2002 law on child protection was finally amended last year by the House of Representatives, with some improvements in provisions on child protection. Despite the legal framework, problems remain with countless numbers of cases going unreported because of fear of social stigma. The special representative of the secretary-general on violence against children, Marta Santos Pais, recently visited Jakarta to meet with ministers and other government representatives as well as civil society organizations. As one of the members of the UN Drafting Group of the convention, Santos Pais made some suggestions as to what Indonesia could do to provide better protection for its children. The Jakarta Post'€™s Hans Nicholas Jong talked to Santos Pais about the issue. The following are excerpts.

Question: What do you think about violence against children in Indonesia?

Answer: We had very good meetings with the members of the government and it was very encouraging to hear about the strong commitment to maintain attention on violence against children, which is now recognized in different pieces of legislation in the new medium-term plan, but also to see the commitment to implement that vision in practical terms. But we had a very good meeting with young people and some of them had experienced situations of bullying or physical abuse or verbal abuse. But above all, they are great advocates for other children who are close to them. So they were sharing stories about how difficult it is for the victims who suffer the impact of violence and how difficult it is to understand who is ready to support the victims. Can they trust people? Can they tell their stories? Will there be anyone giving a hand for them to overcome the trauma that they suffered? This is not unique to Indonesia, but we believe it is one of the most crucial dimensions of the very important work we are all committed to promoting. Children cannot keep silent when they suffer violence and society needs to show that this is a concern for all of us and any incidental violence may have a negative impact on the life of the child, but may have a devastating cost for society as a whole. So we would like to continue to listen to the voice of children, not only their stories of suffering, but also their recommendations. And one of them was raising the awareness on prevention of violence, creating commitments by all departments and actors in society. If we listen to children and gather their recommendations, we will have a better society in Indonesia.

Do you think there is still a lack of a unified movement on the issue?

That'€™s one of the biggest challenges for government in general because the temptation in all countries is for each department to feel that their contribution is so important that they will focus on what they can do. Looking at the school system, the health system and the police'€™s role in parallel, rather than in dialogue. In the new plan in Indonesia, we have a great opportunity to bring all these pieces together and not to limit it to the central level of administration, but also to bring it to the village, the district and the province. We also need networks of child protection so that we can collaborate together in preventing child violence. But in that process, very often we face the challenge of only thinking about what the government and the authorities can do. In a topic like this, that touches such deep beliefs and traditions in society. If we don'€™t involve the public, the families, the communities and the young people, we will fail to achieve change in the mindset and in the behavior of people. I am struck by the fact that in Indonesia, as well as in all other countries, when families are asked, '€œIs it okay to beat a woman for something wrong that she may have done?'€ there is a wide acceptance that this is okay. In any country we ask, '€œIs it okay to discipline your child using some form of violence so that the child can behave better?'€ There is a wide acceptance of that. By promoting this wide movement, we can really help the government achieve quicker results and we can help everybody feel the contribution that they can do, whether as family members, social workers, school teachers or police officers. That'€™s the only way violence becomes part of the past, rather than a very invincible phenomenon in the present.

How important is the role of legislation compared to social norms?

I am a lawyer. I believe that the law has a unique role to play because it is a way of conveying the accountability of the state to its citizens, particularly to its young citizens. And when the law prohibits all forms of violence against children, we give a message to society that it is our common challenge to find ways of preventing the use of violence in promoting the rearing of children. But, we have learned that legislation is not a magic wand and it doesn'€™t change tradition, practice and mindset. And therefore, it is very important that we understand why a family easily accepts the use of violence. And most of the parents tell us, '€œWe don'€™t think it'€™s necessary but we don'€™t know what else we can do.'€ So we can bring good experiences of positive discipline. We can help parents feel how they can discuss with their children without using force to punish and educate the child. We can learn that sometimes we need a few minutes of time out because we are angry and frustrated and we can make that bad temper go away and sit with the children and discuss why what they did was wrong and how they could have done better so that parents could reward good behavior. So social norms hamper progress, but social norms can become a catalyst for change if the norms are toward the protection of the child, rather than legitimizing the ill treatment or violence against children. So, in a way, there is no other alternative between law and social norms. We need to bring them together. It'€™s a difficult dance. But we need to bring that dance to fruition, don'€™t we?

What do you think of early marriage in Indonesia?

Early marriage is a challenge in many countries. I understand that every year 500,000 girls get married below the age of 18. That'€™s 17 percent, which is a very important figure. Why? Because a girl who gets married at an early age will not have the opportunity to finish education and get the skills to be a better mother, citizen and a more productive member of the society. Very often the girl who gets married early in life will have her first pregnancy at a very early stage and we know from statistical information from around the world that this leads to a very high mortality rate. Girls who married before the age 15 are five times more at risk of dying than otherwise.

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