Question: How has the atmosphere within ASEAN changed over the past decade?

Answer: When I was Thai foreign minister, the region was going through a lot of difficult experiences from the financial crisis. We were all still trying to prove to the world we were still resilient in spite of the failures, the meltdown of our own financial and economic achievements.

So the priority then was to prove to the world we were still resilient, that the foundation of our economy was still strong and we would rebound soon.

Ten years on, I think that fact is very much established. And then right now the issue facing ASEAN is no longer proving we are resilient but that we can compete in the international environment ... that we can somehow take care of the problems in our own region. It's about community building so we can compete more effectively so we can use the size, the weight and the resources as attractions for other regions to pay attention to.

Since the signing of the charter last November, I have seen a lot of changes in the attitude of the international community. They are taking us much more seriously because we're trying to demonstrate to them that the community, 570 million people, 10 economies trying to build an economy together. They got excited about that prospect, about that vision. And they take it for granted that ASEAN, as a group, is going to be a force to contend with.

Now there's a challenge to bring ASEAN down to the people, to let them know that ASEAN means something to them. ASEAN has decided on many policies, and issues, and has many projects being implemented by the member states. People don't feel it yet. We all have to bring it down to the people and let them know that good things have been done at the ASEAN level.

What about the strengthening of democracy in ASEAN countries?

Different members of ASEAN are going through different processes and rhythms of democratization. Some that used to be leading are now relapsing. Some that used to be behind in the process are now stepping forward. But on the whole, the fact that the charter has enshrined these democratic principles and characteristics as an aspiration for ASEAN as a community is something that will serve as a benchmark for all of us. Every member is going to be held accountable. Every member is going to be measured against that benchmark, and this will give the general public a sense of direction of where the community should be going and what the problems are.

That is one good thing about the charter. It is up to the leaders, the people, civil society and the media to hold the members accountable.

And that democratic process has led to delays in ratifying the ASEAN Charter.

Well, ASEAN is a collection of a very diverse group of countries. You have to respect the way each Constitution works and what each process of ratification takes. More people want to contribute to the process before they allow their governments to commit to it. If you expect democracy, you have to tolerate the slow process of the wheel of democracy. Once in place, a lot of people want to be a part of the process.

People have made that observation. The more democratic, the slower you are. I think you can't have the cake and eat it too if you want participation of the legislative institutions because they are representatives of the people. We have to respect that. Those who have done (the ratification) quickly, they'll have to find some other way to educate the people. Let's look at it that way.

So I welcome the process. Slow, interesting, tedious and sometimes frustrating, but it is the submission to democracy itself, which is what the charter is.

With complete ratification set by year's end, how will it affect ASEAN as a regional organization?

Certainly, the issue of compliance ... that from now onward any agreement is expected to be complied with. And the force to encourage that compliance has the sanctity of law because the charter is going to give ASEAN a legal personality, and ASEAN will be an organization with rights and privileges, and anybody who is party to ASEAN or ASEAN agreements will have legal obligations. So there will be an effective process of monitoring compliance. That will help create a community, a sense of obligation to the organization.

There will be new institutions. There will be a committee of permanent representatives in Jakarta, representing member states to work with us at the secretariat and to make decisions after consultation with the capitals. But the process will be quicker and shorter because we wouldn't have to go through every capital. It will be more streamlined and tidy. In reality, Jakarta is going to be a New York for ASEAN.

There'll be the institution of the human rights body ... the important body within ASEAN, which is going to elevate ASEAN in that aspect of respect of our citizens' human rights. It is important for ASEAN as an intergovernmental organization taking this issue very seriously. The rights issue is important in our interface with other organizations, with our dialogue partners, because this is an issue of concern to the international community.

Certainly we're talking about one market, about one investment area, about free movement of skilled workers, about a big economic space as consumer and producer. That's why the world is looking at it, at the potentials.

There have been talks about expanding the North Korean six-party talks into a permanent regional cooperation and recently Australia offered the idea of a new Asia-Pacific community. Do these ideas reflect ASEAN's failure in being the region's foundation?

All the mechanisms in the region are working. Some want to improve them, some want to have a superstructure that includes all of them, some would like to see some new mechanisms. All these things are natural phenomena occurring. In the end, what the majority of the member states in the region can have a consensus on, what the majority of them can support, live with, feel comfortable with ... those are the structures that are going to survive.

We cannot forbid anybody from aspiring to something new. Everything is in the state of evolution. I think the message for ASEAN is that the region is being taken seriously, that the region is dynamic and everybody is trying to be part of the region's evolution. It shows our attraction.

But we have to be careful that if we're too slow, less effective and don't deliver, there will be more new ideas emerging and trying to supplement us. If ASEAN wants to be at the center of all these evolutionary processes, that position has to be guarded and validated periodically.

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