I

ndonesia has won kudos from the foreign media for its success in transforming itself from an authoritarian state into a democracy, although local analysts here are less convinced democracy has really taken hold in the country of 230 million people 11 years after the fall of Soeharto. The debate on Indonesia's democracy is still going on, but the Foreign Ministry has already begun to brandish the nation's newly-acquired democracy tag in the region. The Bali Democracy Forum (BDF) is at the forefront of its effort to campaign for democracy in the developing countries of Asia. Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa talked to reporters, including The Jakarta Post's Ary Hermawan, on the sidelines of the Bali Democracy Forum II held on the tourist island from Dec. 10 to 11, where 36 Asian countries, including Myanmar and China, discussed the synergy between democracy and development. Below are excerpts from the interview.

Question: What are the outcomes of the second Bali Democracy Forum meeting?

Answer: There are a few points we need to underline. First, all of the participating countries have persistently expressed their appreciation of Indonesia's democratic transition. Indonesia is now seen as a template for the success of a country in transforming itself from an authoritarian state to a democracy. I want to underline this, because it appears that we tend to make things difficult for ourselves.

Second, on the BDF, the participants said the forum filled a gap, because so far there has been no other forum where countries in the region can exchange information and share experiences of practicing democracy. Compared to other similar forums, the BDF is different in the way that it is inclusive. So there is no vetting here.

The nations invited to and involved in it included established, as well as aspiring, democracies. And that is the value-added of this forum. If we communicate only with democratic countries we would all be preaching to the chorus.

The third point relates to the topic of the second meeting: the linkage between democracy and development. We know there is a polemic on which one should come first; some believe that a country should concentrate on development first, and others believe democracy should go ahead and development will follow. During the discussions, the participants agreed that the two were always intertwined; that we could not improve one of them without boosting the other. It is important for developing countries to expand the discourse of democracy; that it is not only about elections.

The cynics say the forum could be used as a window dressing by nondemocratic countries? What is your comment on that?

We have countries that are not considered democratic *in the region*. What should we do to them? Should they just be isolated or what? What options do we have? Indonesia chose to bring them in. Here they can learn from each other.

Will the BDF ever discuss specific issues like the political process in Myanmar?

A few countries raised a number of issues. Some mentioned Myanmar and the political situation in Northeast Asia. But what matters to us is to discuss democracy in its generic meaning.

What do you think of Japan's proposal that the BDF should have an election visit program?

This is certainly something that we've been thinking about. We've had a wealth of experience, both positive and negative, in conducting elections and that could enrich the consideration and debate in other countries. We hope the BDF can be a part of that mechanism. The idea is very interesting. But we don't want to bite off more than we can chew. So we take things one at a time.

What do you think of the democratization in Asia?

One thing we have learned from our experience is that we have achieved democracy not because of any imposition from outside; it emerged from an internal process within our country. We know only too well that outside forces cannot influence a country's political process. Now that our democracy is becoming more established, we need to project its values. But we do not want to impose or accuse any countries. We only want to share our experience.