Question: Why do you think efforts for a political reform in Myanmar are not working?

Answer: Different governments have been trying to push the Myanmar government toward different types of democratic change. After 20 years it is hard to see progress. It is also hard to see how pressure and diplomacy will change the political scene in Myanmar. This is the time to take a slightly broader view of things.

There has been a civil war for 60 years and there has been a military government for half a century.

Myanmar has dozens of armed groups and is one of the poorest countries. When a country faces many different challenges, focusing on the election and hoping we can push it into a certain political position is not realistic.

It is important that the Myanmar government has promised a free and fair election. But I think we should not fool ourselves into thinking that it is going to work.

There are many areas in which the ASEAN government can help. If you take cyclone nargis, ASEAN played an important role with the UN and Myanmar government in resolving challenges to provide aid for millions of people.

There are still humanitarian challenges in the country; half of the million people in the cyclone area still do not have shelter after two years. There is much to be done to raise money for aid.

The economy still needs many reforms. I am against Western sanctions, which is counterproductive.
Are you saying that instead of pushing for a total reform, it is better that ASEAN and the international world work case by case, such as in economic improvement?

We must be realistic about what we can do.

We need to observe experiences elsewhere, including in Indonesia.

If you look at the new constitution the army implemented, it is not so different from Indonesia’s constitution 20 years ago.

We asked ourselves in Indonesia 20 years ago, would it be helpful if there were sanctions and if diplomats came and pushed for elections? What were the things that made it possible for democratic change in Indonesia?

Any reform must come from within, not from the UN or ASEAN diplomats.

This should not only be from the grassroots level or ordinary people, but the business class and academics.

We have to reach a point where the army trusts there are others who can do this, whether it is the economical or business sector.

Currently we have many military dictators in the world. The army takes over because they think they are the only capable people who can run the country.

This must change as isolating them does not help the process.

The underlying problem in Myanmar is that it has been isolated from the outside world for 25 years. We must change this, which is a task for ASEAN and Western countries, by urging more communication and working with NGOs.

You mean we must empower people at the grassroot level so they become the drive to push for reform?

Yes, not so much empowering, but providing contacts and to reverse the isolation, like what many western countries did in Eastern Europe before the fall of the Berlin Wall.

We have been looking for ways to pressure the Myanmar military but they found a way to resist pressure.

We must look for ways to build other parts of civil society including technocrats, bureaucrats and universities, the people and businesses.

We have done little of that for 20 years and my fear is that when the military agrees to hand over the power to someone else, the people and institutions, having been repressed, will not have the skills to take over.

We have to think about economic changes that can create jobs and train people.

If your country is poor and there are many people desperately looking for jobs in Thailand or Malaysia, how will this lead to democracy?

If you have the situation where the army are not allowed to travel to America, Australia and Europe and they have no chance to see the rest of the world, how can we change their minds?

If we cut off contact with democratic society around the world, how can we develop democratic ideas?

We should not start from what is ideal but from what has been happening. If we look at the abstract way, at the level of democracy, we will get disappointed. We have to look at what is happening and see how we can push for the change. We should not get caught up in an abstract idea, we have to be practical.

Can Myanmar survive if it is ruled by the civilian government considering that many states are still lawless?

Even if you have a political change at the top you still have these problems. Regardless of whether Myanmar is ruled by the military or civilians, we will still have these problems.

We must look at ways to solve this problem.

How should the government approach tribal areas?

Continue talking and negotiating. My largest concern is poverty; these areas are the poorest in the country. Fifty percent of people in the country are making a dollar or less per day; there is no nutrition and high rate of illiteracy.

I hope for external support. Not only in the effort to develop a democracy  but  they cannot wait and that’s why holding back international aid is wrong and we have to do more to help them and convince Myanmar government to spend more on health. It would not lead to democracy but it would not hurt. It is urgent for these people.

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