Question: Why does ASEAN matter?

Answer: I'll give you simple logic. If I lived in Bintaro and wanted to go to meet my new friend in Menteng, I would expect my house to be safe. To be sure it is safe, I need to know my neighbors and the local community guards so that I could leave the house and meet friends elsewhere without a worry. This is what I call regional cooperation.

Some people are still questioning whether ASEAN is strong and solid enough as an institution to work for its members. What is your comment on that?

You answer my question first. How many people think ASEAN is irrelevant? One? ASEAN has to become more solid. Why? We have been able to keep the region peaceful and safe over the past 42 years, and we can see the economy is growing quite well, communication between state leaders is always cordial and people-to-people relations are also improving.

Because of this, our leaders are committed to the ASEAN Charter, which was approved on Dec. 15 last year. We are now in a stage where we would like to have a rules-based organization, so that we can create an ASEAN community by 2015 - which has three pillars: political-security, economic and social-cultural. We have made the blueprint for each pillar and this is a great achievement that indicates that ASEAN is solid.

My second argument is that other countries outside the region now consider ASEAN a strong organization as shown by their sending their ambassadors to the ASEAN. The European Union, the US and other major countries are paying more attention to the region. You know that it usually takes a painstaking internal process for a country to access the Treaty of Amity and Cooperation *TAC*, but some countries sped up that process in order to be able to cooperate with ASEAN because they believe they will benefit from it. The US is one example.

We have also established an ASEAN committee of permanent representatives, which means that each member state must assign a permanent representative to the secretariat just like the United Nations. The committee will discuss in detail how we can implement the mandates of the charter and also the blueprints. This is another achievement.

Has Indonesia appointed its permanent representative?

I am currently the permanent representative ad interim from Indonesia, but this is because we are now in the transition period. We will appoint our permanent representative when the time has come.

Can you give a simple depiction of what an ASEAN community will be like?

We have agreed that by 2015 we will have a security community in which all states will be democratic and respect human rights, are capable of ensuring regional political stability, and are open to security cooperation with other countries outside the region that intend to participate in the process of keeping political security and stability in the region.

In the economic sector, we will have a free flow of goods and services among ASEAN countries. We are going to become a unified production center and will increase trade relations. We are going to have a mechanism to discuss regional issues such as haze and migrant workers. We are now discussing a dispute settlement mechanism. We would like to find solutions to our regional problems, we do not want other countries to settle our disputes.

What kind of role does Indonesia wish to play in ASEAN? Has Indonesia been successful in carrying out its missions?

We are part of the first five members of ASEAN, which means we are one of the original members of ASEAN. Our role is to guard the spirit of ASEAN, maintaining the idea that we need this organization. Now that we have the ASEAN Charter, our main responsibility is to implement comprehensively what is mandated in the charter. The charter's political security element was initiated by Indonesia, while the other elements have actually been around for four decades.

To guard also means to lead. We have recently been able to convince our partners that we need a human rights body. That's our leadership. People were previously pessimistic about it, said such a rights body would never be established in Southeast Asia.

But critics say the rights body is toothless and Indonesia has failed in its diplomacy to create a powerful body. What is your comment on that?

At one point, as the foreign minister said, we almost decided not to join the agreement to set up the rights body. It was nine against one. There was a fierce debate. Although we are disappointed, we did secure commitment from the other member states to review the elements of the body within five years. It will be stated in a political declaration signed by our leaders.

We see this as an evolution. It is impossible for us to get 100 percent consensus; this is the best we can get in the current situation. In the next five years, we will achieve what we are fighting for. Yes, we are upset and unsatisfied, but for ASEAN to agree on creating a human rights body was unthinkable before. If we want to see the glass half-full, this is indeed a significant improvement.

Are you optimistic countries like Myanmar and Cambodia in the next five years will accept the kind of a rights body Indonesia has wanted?

This is a process. As they have approved the rights body, they have bound themselves to our shared commitment. We have seen the region becoming slightly more open. Countries from outside the region would not have given priority to ASEAN if they had not seen improvements in the region's political sector.

What do you think of the existing perception that Indonesia is being too aggressive in imposing its values during the rights body debate?

We are not trying to please anybody. We were the second last country to ratify the ASEAN Charter because we had to be convinced that what we agreed on was equal to the national consensus. We have the obligation to ensure that our regional agreement on human rights is not lower in its quality than our national consensus, and also our commitment on a global level. If it is lower, then we do not need it.

Who is going to represent Indonesia in the human rights commission? Will he or she come from a civil society group or a governmental institution?

It will be an open appointment. We do not differentiate between NGO activists and government officials. Those who are considered capable will represent Indonesia in the commission. We will not embarrass ourselves as the country who has pushed for a more powerful rights body.

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