A question posed by a panelist about what made Indonesia great on the international stage quickly turned into a fiery argument over the role of military power in foreign policy, with Jokowi being a multilateralist fighting for peace and Prabowo a realist preparing for imminent war.

Jokowi argued that as a country with the largest Muslim population in the world, Indonesia has the ability to solve religious-based conflicts throughout the world, including mediating peace in the case of the Rohingya refugee crisis in Myanmar.

In response, Prabowo said diplomacy should not just be about being a mediator. “Diplomacy should be part of defending our key national interests. Diplomacy needs to be backed up by power. If diplomacy is based only on smiles, just being a nice guy, then how can we defend our interests. If people come into our country, what will we do?” he said.

He said that while Indonesia wanted to “act as a mediator and as a nice guy,” the country was not very respected internationally because of its debts and weak currency.

Prabowo later called out Jokowi’s aides for not giving him adequate briefings on Indonesia’s preparedness for war, saying “if you want peace, prepare for war. We should never act as if there will never be any war”.

Jokowi, however, said Indonesia’s military was adequate, citing the defense budget of Rp 107 trillion (US$7.5 billion), the second largest behind the Public Works and Housing Ministry.