Among prominent figures with firsthand knowledge and experience of the Aceh disaster response more than 20 years ago is former vice president Jusuf Kalla, who now chairs the Indonesian Red Cross (PMI). On Wednesday, Kalla spoke with The Jakarta Post’s M. Taufiqurrahman, Radhiyya Indra and Kharishar Kahfi about the ongoing handling of the Sumatra disaster and lessons learned from the 2004 tsunami response. Below are excerpts from the conversation.

Question: As someone who was on the ground in Aceh in the early days of the 2004 tsunami and was deeply involved in the response, how critical is the government’s emergency action in the first few days of a disaster?

Answer: Today’s disaster and the 2004 disaster have different characteristics. In 2004, it was a tsunami. The devastation came from the earthquake, which destroyed buildings, and then the tsunami which followed and overwhelmed the region, causing huge numbers of deaths.

On the other hand, floods mostly cause damage to houses, though not total destruction. What destroyed infrastructure this time was not just floodwater, but the logs carried by the flood. If you look at the collapsed bridges, they didn’t fall apart because of the water alone, but because of the wooden logs. So the bigger “sin” lies with people cutting trees or damaging forests. Floods naturally have risks, but not to this extent.

The solution always includes three phases: emergency response, rehabilitation and reconstruction. Back in 2004, the emergency response lasted six months. Today’s disaster might differ. Despite differences in disasters, every casualty matters. Even one death is too many.

We’ve heard a lot of debate about whether the government should declare this tragedy a national disaster. In your view, is that a substantive discussion or are there more important issues that remain less talked about?